THE IMPORTANCE OF EVENT SAFETY

Hello, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is dedicated to the future of the live events business, bringing together industry experts. Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Today I have two amazing guests. I have Jim Digby, who's the president of Show Makers. He's also the co-founder and president of the Events Safety Alliance. And I also have Tim Sauerman, who's the head of project management at Brainbox in the ETP company. Guys, welcome to the show. Hi, Les. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us today. Our show is dedicated to safety, safety, safety, safety. One thing that we never hear enough about in our industry and doing shows. So we're going to talk about safety. We're going to talk about COVID safety. We're going to talk about whether it's a live show, a virtual show or any kind of show. So I'm going to throw this first question right to Jim, and Jim, I just want to know, why is safety important to everyone in the production world? Sustainability. You know, I think I think the short answer for that is, you know, we're in the entertainment business. We're not in the create dead bodies business. So it's in our best interest then to be safe and to create safe environments and to host safe events so that those who purchase our tickets come back and do it again. I like doing it again. You know, the theory is no one should die doing a show. We should. We should try and keep things safe. Well, well, Tim, I know you've deployed thousands of shows with crews in every scale, and I've personally seen many of them. Tim, why is safety important? And could you articulate about safety in our world? I mean, you look at a load in for a show and it's essentially being on a live construction site and it's the entertainment business. So people there, they're going to have fun, they're going to get a little complacent. So it's really important that everybody keeps conscious of their surroundings and make sure that everybody is conscious of everybody else's surroundings and keeps us safe environment as you load in. I mean, and larger the shows, the harder it is to sustain that, because you know, you're there for 5 or 6 days, you're there for two weeks, and people start to get complacent. The longer you're there because everybody starts to feel comfortable and they lose that safety mindset, the longer there in the same place. You know, it's interesting. I'm going to throw this back to Jim. Jim, how do you think people keep that mindset that Tim mentioned? You know, whether they're doing a virtual event in a studio or they're doing a live event or some hybrid event, you know, the future will probably look very hybrid ish. But how do you you know, sometimes if you go to a construction site, you see the signs that say, you know, think safe or safe workplace or things. But how do you keep a mindset of safety among the teams that are working? And this does include safety for COVID as well. You know, we're working in studios now every week trying to pull off events. And what do you think is the best approach toward getting that mindset of safety? Good question. And I think if it is born in some of what the ESA's birth and origin story was about, right in the stage collapsed in Indiana in 2011. We as an industry, typically kind of guffawed at safety. It was not the foremost thought. It's the least sexy subject matter in our business. And and we did not have a strategic approach collectively towards safety. You know, risk management and risk assessing is our tools that are well used and well respected everywhere around the world. And almost every industry, arguably, but ours by and large. So the culture of safety is where we have to start. We have we have to have leaders. We have to build leaders who care about risk strategy management. And we have to build leaders who are more empathetic and more compassionate than the ego it takes to run the job. So safety has to start from the top, and it has to be. It has to be. Toolbox talk every day before we go to work. And and it is in our we have to bake it into everything we do. It's a difference between tradecraft, safety. I'm a safe rigor. I do my rigging job well and the culture of safety across all of it. I'm wearing my hard hat. I'm wearing my steel toes. I'm looking out for those next to me. Those are two different things. They're both equally important. You know, I liked hearing the culture of safety. To me. That is that is awesome. You know, recently, Tim, you just got certified as a COVID safe. Could you tell us about that? What do you learn in a in a COVID safe protocol and kind of give us a little insight to that? Yeah, the the COVID-19 Safety Protocol officer certification, they pretty much go through the basics of what to look out for and how to, for lack of a better term, police the safety throughout the event. We talk about that whole complacency, and you look at the masks and social distancing, and you have somebody who's going to sit down at a workstation in a studio for 5 or 6, ten, 12 hours a day, and they've got their mask on and they're really conscious about being safe, and they want to stay healthy so they can do the next event and keep their coworkers safety. And suddenly it's a little warm, and I want to take my mask off to get this drink. And now the mask is laying on the desk, and it's the safety officers job to just kind of encourage people to, hey, just remember to put your mask back on. Remember, keep your social distancing, don't forget to sanitize your hands, wash your hands, wash your workstation and just keep everybody compliant. And you know, so and I keep using the word complacency to make sure just people don't forget we're here to keep each other safe, keep each other healthy so we can continue to work. You know, it's interesting because, you know, policing people seems to be one of those things that can be seen as sometimes that's the tough part. And hearing from you, what you just said is you're encouraging people to be safe. But but, you know, having to be the policeman sometimes. That's the tough part. Jim, what are your thoughts on this? And, you know, obviously COVID is something new and we're all having to work in this new paradigm, this new world. I've got lots of masks and I can I try to do all the right things. But I went to a show last week and I literally got to the show. I filled out a form which was like a kind of a survey form that said do my sick or am I? And they did my temperature. And then I went inside to the show, and then the next thing I asked me is, do I want a free instant COVID test? And of course I took it. But I'm curious as to your thought about how do you see COVID and safety and a strategy that may be successful? Well, back to the Event Safety Alliance. And in every instance of a new tragic Black Swan moment within our business a la Pulse Nightclub, Christina Grimmie, Bataclan, Las Vegas. The ESA pivoted and and found subject matter experts, brought them together, coalesced the data, and put it out there free to the industry to learn from like that. In May, the Event Safety Alliance released reopening guidance, 30-odd pages of best reasonable practices to get us all on the same page so that, at the very least, we did no further harm to our industry. The idea of policing a show site and event site, a recording site, whatever it might be, is supremely important. At this point in time. We don't have a cure. We don't have sustainable treatments in the hospital system, and we need to be very cautious and good stewards of our industry. So the COVID compliance officer is a good first step. Possibly we could go deeper than that. And the ESA is working on creating an even deeper understanding and a deeper certification for that. We think that, you know, we're doing the ESA is doing a lessons learned podcast where we're talking with folks who have executed shows of all types, mostly without audiences in this environment, and capturing the stories from how those shows went, what worked, what didn't work, how can we improve the guidance? We don't want people stepping in the same pile of dog stuff twice if we can avoid it. So, you know, the in the case of the Univision award show that just took place at the Hard Rock Seminole in Florida, there were some dozen COVID compliance folks on site, some taking tests, some monitoring the usage of masks and washing. It is not a one person job. It is not a duplicitous job, meaning you can't be the rigger and the COVID officer. It requires an individual or group of individuals to monitor and large a show site of any scale to ensure that people are doing the best. The biggest problem we have is because our business is largely ego driven and bravado driven. We've got folks who are on the other side of the mask spectrum who say, I will not wear a mask. And frankly, I think that, you know, with 12 million of us in the entertainment space unemployed, those people need to be asked to excuse themselves from show sites. There has to be a zero tolerance policy until we get through this. That's our take on it. Do you know, I saw this ad and it was of a dog and it had four different masks, coverings of the dog and three of them were wrong. Where the mask was below the neck, one was above the head, and, you know, one was right under the under the lips. And I guess the idea of masks on show site is the zero tolerance. And that's basically what you're saying. Yeah. And it has to be, I'm sorry. Les, it has to be the right mask too. There was a study released yesterday, very rudimentary study released yesterday. But person coughing through different types of masks including this neck gaiter. The neck gaiter by the way almost did nothing. And the thing that did the most was those disposable surgical masks, the actual ones approved for the hospital. It moved the least amount of they were doing cryo fog and coughing into the fog, and the surgical mask did the least the maximum amount of containment over this gaiter idea. That does nothing practically. Essentially, if you can blow a candle out with your mask on, the mask is completely inefficient. So that's the new that's the test, right? Well, and the ones with the little valve, the one way valve on the no good, they protect you, but they don't protect the people around you. Correct. And we need to be stewards of all of us. We all have to survive this, you know, and separate from COVID, which seems to be the topic of of the moment. Right? We invest in training, you know, training as a 724 for safety. And there's elements of training. I mean, you talk about riggers getting continuous training. What do you think is the elements in a show that would be the most important pieces that require some type of ongoing training. And I'm throwing this to Tim. Well, that's a that's a big statement there. I mean, every aspect of a show should have continuing education. I'm a retired firefighter paramedic, and I look at that where if you don't do 102 hours a year, you're you're no longer licensed. And I felt two, 102 hours was not near enough to sustain being a paramedic. And I feel it's the same way in our industry that, you know, there's there's changes in technology, there's changes in safety protocols. I mean, people bring in new equipment. We have to deal with these large objects. People are moving LED walls, and people don't really know how these mechanical LED walls work. So continuing education is extremely important. And educating, you know about the new equipment, the new ways we're doing things on show site, all these new tech technology and all these new cool little trinkets that everybody wants to bring on show site to play with. You know, Jim, what are your thoughts on on that what departments, whether it's rigging or whether it's all the departments or, or do you think every show should have a ten minute safety meeting at the beginning of the show? You know, how how where should we invest in safety? And while safety is is such an important element, you know, which departments you know, rigging is an obvious one because you're putting big, heavy things over people's heads. But what are your thoughts on where to invest in safety? So yes, to all of it. Last. That's my that's my belief. You know, listen, we have to first look at ourselves, look at our industry and admit where we are. We are an industry that requires zero credentials, zero learning, zero anything from those who lead the industry. I have had to take no schooling, no practical education whatsoever to be a guy in charge of a global touring artist whose putting 100,000 people in a stadium. I've had to have zero proof of competency on that. That on the job training. Yeah, that's ass backwards. And it is. It's OTJ. And while that builds instinctual decision making capabilities, which is important, I you know, if my accident or my incident, my crisis moment comes in year one or year five, and I haven't had the luxury of nearly four decades of doing it, then how good am I going to be at responding to that crisis moment? So I would argue that if we dug on, well, better start with those who are in charge or who are leaders of our workforce and and ask of them to be more than just, hey, I've got a relationship with a buddy who got me this PM role or this SM role of this team role. We need to be asking our production and tour managers to be project managers, to be to have the competencies of risk management, risk control, risk contingency planning, and then lead that from the top down so that everyone in the workforce understands that. When you're on this show site with this leader, you better have your shit together. You know what? I think coming in prepared is one of those elements that we just don't appreciate because when people, things just don't go right. How do you guys approach? And I'll start with this one to Tim. And then I'm going to get your thought on the same question. How do you go about addressing when you see something that's unsafe and you walk by and you see someone blatantly doing something unsafe, whether it's rigging or no matter what department it is. Tim, how do you approach a person that you know is doing something just blatantly out there that is exposing everyone to potential liability? Well, the first thing to do is, you know, in a professional manner. It's just stop them, just stop the when I was at Cirque du Soleil, the the key word we talked people was stop. No not yelling. Hey, not getting an argument, not escalating things. The word is stop. And then just educate them really quickly on what they're doing wrong, because sometimes they don't realize they're doing something incorrectly or unsafe and explain to them, you know, very, very nicely how to correct it. And if they need assistance, a system, just show them how to do it correctly. Jim your thoughts? Yeah, I would agree. I think we're we live in unsafe behaviors all the time. And you know pre Indiana, the scale of which we lived in unsafe behaviors I would argue was greater and that now the safety has you know it's a little bit less than the least sexy subject matter in the business. And people are taking it significant slightly more seriously than they have in the past. But I think, again, back to leadership. We have to empower our ground riggers to keep the floor clear out from underneath the up riggers who are working. You know, how many times do you walk onto a floor and you see guys building trust underneath the rigors overhead? This is just unacceptable. This is a risk avoidance mechanism. We can say, no, sorry, there's a guy overhead. You're going to work somewhere else for right now. So you know, I think while Tim is absolutely correct, look, the approach has to be soft handed initially and but it has to be it has to be committed. Also, we knew when we started the Events Safety Alliance that we were addressing a culture of folks whose bravado and ego didn't want to be challenged about the way they had done business for the last 20 or 30 years. I am not changing now. So we took an approach that was not stick. It was carrot. Listen, we can do better here. Here are the ways we can do better. Here's 330 pages of guidance we can build for you that we all should agree to kind of work. That gravity is the same everywhere, just like COVID. It affects us the same everywhere. And if if we can, if we can agree to those premises and we can agree to the ideas that keep us safe, and managing that safety and policing that safety on a show site should be gentle but firm. If that's if that's a capability, gentle but firm. Guys, I want to get you a closing thought from both of you. And and I am super passionate about safety. If I walk around any of my warehouses or if I go on show site and I see something immediately, I'm always thinking about the worst case scenario. So I'm really trying to, you know, you know, make sure that we reduce exposure and we do things in the most safe, professional manner. But what I really want to know, and I'll throw this to Tim, is how do you get passionate about safety? You know, as as Jim, you said it's not like the sexiest subject, but but it is really nice that you get to go home to your family and no one gets hurt. And I think those are magical things. And we live in an industry kind of like what you're describing it as. It's like the Wild West. It's not been policed. And and, you know, through insurance companies and liability situations, they it requires a much higher level or degree. So, Tim, how do you get people excited about safety? Because I'm pretty excited about it. It's not a sexy subject. But I'll tell you what sexy is. Everybody gets to go home and have dinner with their families and, and you know, and they say on these construction sites, they give you 28 days, no accidents. They have signs, you know, just to get everybody an awareness. But how do you get people to get on board with safety and make sure safety is at their forefront of what they're doing? I haven't figured out a good way to make people enthusiastic about safety, but it just goes back to one of my earlier statements. Is just keeping people educated and keep them enthusiastic about it. It's like what you said earlier, it's like everybody wants to go home and see their kids. I want to finish the day and, you know, go to the bar and not the emergency room to check up on my guys, you know what I mean? That's an interesting comment. I'd rather go to the bar than the emergency room. Those are those are very, you know, opposite environments, you know, the the experience. And what are your thoughts on on how do you get people passionate about this and to get this culture instilled without, you know, beating them on the head, you know, because they have to realize the bar is very different than the emergency room. Yeah, for sure. And yet we still see veterans making rookie mistakes and falling to their death. Right. So, you know, for me, at 19 years old, I was at the controlling some lighting equipment, special effects at a grand opening of a nightclub and a fixture fell from the roof that wasn't fully installed and killed a girl eight feet from where I was standing. And I was pushing the button on that lighting fixture, so that gave me the scar tissue necessary to be excited about safety and hyper conscious to safety. That's a that's a life experience that is very difficult to convey to anyone, if not impossible. But what you can do is take that enthusiastic enthusiasm and create a reward system, perhaps. I mean, I like the idea of the the construction site side. It's been 28 days since our last accident. You know, if I get through a day on tour with no one injured, perhaps the thing to do then is to reward the team for that. Hey. Nobody's injured. It's a level one reward of some sort. I don't know that an enthusiasm for safety can exist in everyone. I think it exists in a few, and hopefully each team is lucky to have at least one to try to see the enthusiasm in everybody else. One thing is for certain, it can't be the subject we talk negatively about. That's what keeps it from becoming something that we talk enthusiastically about. We have to do the toolbox talk every morning. Hey guys, I'm glad to be here today. Here's the situation with our show. I'm really excited to have your help on site today. There's a couple of risky moments throughout the day. Here's where they are. We'll let you know when they're coming. We care about you. You should care about us. Let's look out for each other and survive the day. If you give me a 62nd toolbox, talk like that every morning, I'm going to. I'm going to ingest your enthusiasm and work a little bit more safer. You know, Jim, that was awesome. That was that toolbox talk as a takeaway from this podcast that that Tim, we can export it to all of our project managers and our leads as, as some good piece of advice. As a takeaway, I would recommend having your leads read the Checklist Manifesto and it talks about this idea of toolbox talk, and how having that daily checklist and having that daily enthusiastic conversation gets the team all on the same page. And fewer people go home hurt that day because you've done it. Oh, I'm I'm excited about hearing that feedback. You know, it's it's a tough subject to get really super enthusiastic about. But, you know, safety is a way of life. And in our industry, safety 6 or 8 months ago was to deliver the show in a meaningful way and keep people healthy and and do it day in and day out, whether it was a tour and we were on the road, or if it was going to a ballroom for a few weeks or or a theater or whatever we were doing, and now we're living with not only the physical risk of moving gear and hanging it in a in an event that may happen, whether it's a virtual event where we're doing it in a studio now, but we've also got another layer of safety is this COVID, this health safety. And, you know, it's someday in the future, we're going to have people that get vaccines and we're going to have standards that are set up, and we're just kind of trying to navigate this course as we come back to some form of live events and as this world starts to get back and some of those 12 million people get back to work. So I want to thank both of you, Jim and Tim, for joining me today. You're both amazing people, and I think our industry needs more people like you who are de facto leaders and who are helping setting a course that will keep people alive, healthy and again delivering awesome shows. So again, this is Les Goldberg and The Road Ahead. Guys. You're amazing. Thanks. Thanks for having us. Don't forget events, safety lines, reopening guidance free of charge for everybody I got it. Okay, guys, take care.