INGREDIENTS FOR A GREAT SHOW

Hello, production world, this is Les Goldberg, and welcome to The Road Ahead. The Road Ahead podcast is courtesy of LMG with your host Les Goldberg. Hello everyone, and today's podcast. The road ahead. I have three amazing guests. First, I have Jeff Wilk, who's the founder of Tencue. I have Bob Bonniol, who's the chief creative officer from Mode Studios, and I have Rebecca Linder, the founder owner of Linder Global Events. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining me on my show today. Hi. Thanks to be here today. Our topic is what are the ingredients for a great show. And I'd like to talk about that instead of the normal discussions nowadays everyone's having about how we're going to do virtual meetings. I want to know, you know, the meetings that we've done in the past and the meetings we're going to do in the future. They all have a component of greatness. And and to make a great event and a meeting, I want to know what are the right elements. So I'm going to throw it right to Jeff. And I want Jeff to tell me, what are your elements in what you define as a great show? Great start. Thanks, Les, for kicking off with me. You know, look, a great show. The most obvious answer is that which excites an audience. And whenever we think about programing, we always start by imagining what our audience is going to respond to. You know, whether that's storytelling, whether that's a lot of jazz and pizzazz, whether that's really phenomenal content or whether that's giving a free car to everybody. It's really dependent on what the expectation is of the audience and what the mood is in balance with what our client wants to do and what they want to express. So what makes a really great show? It's the obvious one where the audience responds exactly as we want them to respond. That's an interesting answer, Jeff, I appreciate that. Rebecca, would you like to opine your ingredients on a great show? I would love to opine. Thank you for having me, Les. You know, Jeffrey, I agree with so much of what you say. The way we think about it here, you know, in our company, as we kind of enter a new project, doesn't matter. The size or scale or the type of show is really what does the context need to be before we start thinking about the content? Because as you say, it's all about engagement and making them, you know, creating an environment where they take an action that's, you know, what you want them to do. And in our case, I don't care if it's dancing to great music as a part of the show because it's a concert versus, you know, donating or networking or, you know, becoming a raving fan post the event and an ambassador. So for us, it's very similar. I mean, it's it's creating that sense of intimacy and delight and engagement, you know, making sure the ingredients are there, though for the show, the sense of fun and the sense of seriousness when necessary, sort of all these counterpoints. So that's what we get excited about is we think about shows. Rebecca, that was very, very interesting. Okay, Bob, it's your turn to opine if you're building a fantastic show. What are the right elements? What do you have to have? She laughs. It was so kind of you to make me go last after those save the best for last, right? There you go. Perceptive and intelligent responses. You know, a I have to say everything that Jeff and Rebecca just said all of that right. If I could add anything to that, it's what makes a great show for me when I'm thinking about it is in the beginning, making sure that everybody is enrolled in the same vision of what success looks like. What we don't want to do is show up and try to make five different kinds of shows, right? So one of the key ingredients to the way I think about this is are we all moving in the same direction to make the same thing. And then what Rebecca just said really got me to thinking for a second that context over content. And I think that one of the things I really focus on when I'm thinking about a show is, is it's easy to be focused entirely in that content. Right? That the primary thing we're communicating. But in fact, maybe what makes a show the most magical, in my estimation, are the in between moments, you know, the opportunities for chance meetings, that that moment when you can turn to an audience member or participant next to you and share a reaction, the unexpected things that happen in and around the content and creating space for those things to happen, and intention so that the end result is something that seems a little bit magical. I just want you to know, I got three of the best answers that I've ever had to any question. So I'm excited about as we continue this. So I'm going to move on to the next question is, and this really goes to beg of building a show. And back to Jeff. Now, if you're designing a show and how did the design and the environments impact a show? Now we've done shows where there have been small rooms, big rooms, enormous rooms. So how does the design and the environment of the room you're working or the space? How does that play a part and how you approach a show? Well, you know, it's I guess it's everything and it's nothing at the same time. You know, all artists talk about needing constraints and the room environment is always the primary constraint. Budget is a constraint. Clients willingness to take chances as a constraint. Right. You know, we we incorporate all the constraints into our thinking. So it's all integral into what that design solution is. You know, I don't know if I've ever met a room that I couldn't come up with a solution for. There have been a few that the constraints are so dramatic that we have to completely reimagine what a show is. But, you know, my favorite thing to do is actually to take the worst space. You know, that which everybody dislikes, the ugly duckling, and turn it into something really compelling and interesting, because you do get to rethink everything. There's zero expectations and you get to reimagine everything. So, you know, space is critical design. And then, you know, the other thing critical to design, again, is, as everyone else has said, is what the intent is, what the context is, what the content is, all of that, you know, you put those things together. It's a great opportunity to surprise an audience, to mix things up, to change things. You know, we talk frequently about creating thresholds, about shifting anticipation, shifting expectations, and that's what Design in Space allows you to do. And it's interesting in today's virtual space, it's I think one of the most compelling challenges is how do you create that threshold moment? How do you say that this event that you're now attending in front of the same freaking screen that we look at eight hours a day is special and unique. You don't have airports, you don't have travel, you don't have greeters, you don't have Vegas slot machines. You don't have all of these other indicators to say this is unique. So the design challenge in today's environment is designing around, you know, a 23 inch monitor and making that have that same moment of shift of expectation. Wow. That is a very thoughtful answer, Rebecca. How could you add to that? You know, design and environments. And I know it doesn't have to always be limited to a corporate meeting. It could be a special event. We could be outside. We could be in a field. We could be in a stadium. What are your thoughts? You know, mine kind of goes back to the design element is part of the context part that I was referring to. And the idea for for us is always about how do you ignite the intrinsic motivation, right. It's not about you manipulating your audience and about your audience engaging to the degree that they want to take that action. Right. And so for us, like Jeff said, what's so exciting is when you get an environment that is whether it's the ugly duckling or it's just this blank space that you get to build it to help infuse the kind of energy and the kind of ideation that you want to see people take or experience. It's where the senses all come in. It's where temperature and sound and smell and, you know, visuals, all of these things come into play. And to me, those are the design elements, the things that you can touch and feel and see and smell and taste. And I find them critical to the experience. Well, I will tell you, a lot of times when I look at a room, I look at the loading door, I look at the rigging, I look at the power in a non creative way. I'm trying to be very pragmatic, but Bob, but that is, that is that is part of the that's part of the creative. Right. Those are the constraints as well. If we can't get our shit in the door, then we got to redesign. My favorite moment in theater, we were loading in a show back in my my arts and theater days, and next door was Les Mis installing in San Francisco. And then the set ended up sitting out on the curb for three days because somebody forgot to measure the load indoor, and they built all of the scenery, and they had to fly out from New York and cut it down and rewire it, because they forgot to measure the loading door. We can't afford that. We can't afford those opportunities to sit in the curb and wait. Got it? I agree, Bob, what are your thoughts on the design and the environments? I know you've worked in some really unique, unusual environments. Well, I like probably what our mutual friend Bob Microsoft. He refers to this as story dwellings, right? Which I think is a really critical thing to think about. It used to be that the byline for Mode Studios was we create worlds for stories, because all of those are stories. Whether whether the communication is about inspiring or educating or selling or entertaining, these are stories and stories. Like Rebecca said quite aptly, they require the context, right? They require. And because so often in what we're doing right, we really want to go for a durable connection, a durable impression. We want people to remember things. And, you know, the way I think about it, I call this the sensory multiplier. And again, I'm just going to couple right on to what Rebecca was talking about, which is the senses and how they come to this communication. And when we can see things, that's an incredibly powerful impression we get when we can see things in the company of hearing something that's not simply a doubling of that impression, it's actually a little bit exponential. And then when we can then engage another sense, a tactile sense or smell. And really the holy grail is taste, because the taste can bring you back to a moment, it can bring a memory back. It can create a context for an emotion that you felt. So any of these sentences, the more of these senses we can engage simultaneously, the more durable the impression of that moment is, the longer that story is going to stick, and then you get to be able to measure the impulse, the education, the entertainment, and and it becomes a whole expression and not something that's just sitting there naked. And if I may, you know, it also draws on kind of the fundamentals of adult learning techniques, right? I mean, we are entertaining. 99% of the people were engaging our adults. And that's how we that's that's how you appeal to them, kind of to that intrinsic motivation to take those actions to participate in the way we want to is through those senses. So it's really exciting and it's a gift that we get to do it daily. Well, Rebecca, on that note, let's move on to my next question. And you can answer this two ways. The first one is how do you know or measure your audience engagement. And then I'm going to couple the second question on what Jeffrey was saying about how do you do it with the virtual version versus the in-person version? Because our worlds traditionally for the last 20 or 30 years have all been about doing live in person meetings. But now in our new world, we have to deal with that virtual audience as a component. So let's start with the in person. How do you measure your engagement of your audience and then then address how would you how do you adjust it differently for that virtual piece? Now I would it's interesting. I mean, we can certainly talk about the methods of surveying and getting feedback and sort of all the very kind of ways to do it in order to gather data. But truthfully, to me, the way I always look at is did they take the action? Did they dance? Did they vote? Did they donate a certain amount of money? Did they clap? Did they cry? You know, whatever those touch points are throughout the event and and the results that we're looking to achieve for the client, I mean, that's essentially, you know, are they going to continue that relationship. Will it be durable. So that's how we measure it, you know. And how about the virtual component. Anything different I think it's very similar. Truthfully there's a lot of similarities. I mean there's a bigger challenge that you have to overcome to sort of, you know, go from, you know, large events and trying to create intimacy within those, whereas you have this very sort of strangely disconnected environment in the virtual space, but yet it feels one on one to some weird way. But you're trying to draw more people in and have them network and be together. So I think the success there, I would rely a little bit more on the traditional data as well as of course. Did they take the action? I mean, I think they still apply. Got it. Okay. Jeffrey, what are your thoughts on audience engagement? And and I know you and I have sat in rooms and reflected on this subject, but but what are your thoughts on engagement for these live events, whether it's a large audience or a small, intimate audience, what is your thoughts on that? You know, I mean, the measurement is sort of the holy grail, and I don't believe currently there's a successful measurement system that gives results that aren't otherwise obvious or actionable. And I think that's true virtual. I think that's true in person. I suspect what Rebecca was saying is at some point we trust our gut. We do look for results. But you know, when you're in the live environment, you can feel the room, you can feel a response, you can feel a reaction. You can count people walking out of the room. There are lots and lots of measurements, but it starts with what are your expectations for the event and then how? You know, you have to start out by deciding what you're going to measure. If you don't set that criteria in advance, then the rest of it is silly anyway. You know, we're looking at passive measurement systems. I think, you know, data aggregation systems. People look at social measurement, all sorts of different things. I think those are all interesting and compelling. I think they add to it, particularly in the virtual environment. We can look at eyeballs, we can look at engagement, sentiment, engagement. We can look at response rates, all those kinds of things. I think the future in measurement really is in passive aggregation of data. I think there are ways to measure. I just don't think there's really good systems right now. I think this active system of surveying, post-event, all of that. I think the data is so skewed that I actually don't find it worthwhile. And people tend to rely on the verbatim regardless, in the virtual world, again, it's easier to to accumulate the data. It's easier to see how many people are engaged, how long they're engaged, all that kind of thing. It's harder to see what that level of engagement is. And again, that's why we're looking at some of these passive systems of sentiment, engagement and whatnot. You know, are people actually paying attention in the early days of web development? Right. There was eyeball tracking. And to see how people were using pages. I think there's a lot of potential around there, but it requires two way requires opt in, which again, just skews your data on onset. So in the end, I think you have a gut feeling, right. You know, it's I we used to do a lot of stockholder meetings and whatnot. And if the stock went up the next day, we thought that was a success, right? We would literally look at the stock price and take credit for it. And I think to Rebecca's point, we can look at that. We can look at sales figures, right? You can almost always see a bump after a successful sales conference. You can almost always see a bump after a successful user conference. So that input is at least satisfying to the soul. I don't know the reliability of that. You know, if we didn't do this where they had the same sales over the year without the spike, nobody really knows, right? These tentpole events, nobody really knows the true value. Right. And that's why years ago, you know, the industry created, you know, return on experience as opposed to a return on investment because it's not it's like any marketing, it's not measurable in discernible ways or actionable ways. At least that's my feeling. So, Bob, can you add anything about the audience engagement? And from the shows you've done and and what metrics do you've used? When I when we designed the show or when I've created a show, I don't look at the show. When it's opening, I'm standing and I'm looking at the audience like I'm I'm watching their reaction. I know what's happening back there on the stage. I want to see how it's hitting. So in a sense, it's the gut. But look, as your nominal futurist on this panel, you know, I'll tell you, I've been thinking deeply about this. Right. And and Jeff mentioned return on experience. So what that's led to from Mode Studios is we're leaning into tools like using a leader, using thermal cameras, like if, if, for instance, we design the stand for for a North American auto show, we're leaning into tools that can tell us where are people, where are they gathering, how many of them are. We're measuring things like temperature, because this is how we can tell if people are excited. Are they all tending to gather in front of a particular engagement? Are they looking at the screen for particular pieces of content? This stuff can now be measured and it can be measured accurately. So we can begin to derive and after the fact measurement of how successful was the content, how successful was the engagement. But when we begin to intersect that with using systems like artificial intelligence to. And when we start to layer that into the very common world of show control that we already understand, now it introduces a tool set that can become dynamic. Like what if we can measure on that Chevy stand? How many people are looking at a piece of content? What if the system could say, you know what, this isn't matching expectations and it can actually autonomously shift run of show and measure again. So do like a B testing like you would do with a Facebook ad. But now we're doing it with content on a show floor and we're tuning tuning, tuning until the measurement hits what we're expecting. So I think that there's some exciting tools that are hitting now that are going to really expand this capability to measure and for us to react in the moment. That was you took me into the future there. So that'll take me to my next question. And this is to Jeff. So I know we have done some of the most basic technology to the most advanced technology humanly possible. So what is your thoughts on technology and storytelling and how they intertwine? You know, it's part of the palette. It's a pretty straightforward answer. It's just part of the palette. And any artist uses the right tools, the right colors, the right whatever to convey the emotion that they want to convey. And you might be a mondrian and only have 3 or 4 colors in your palate, but they're incredible and they're insane. Or, you know, be some performance artist that uses robots and industrialization to tell their story. So my palette is lighting and led and projection and scenic and whatnot, and it's really figuring out how to tell. In this case, I really is storytelling for me, but more importantly, how to evoke the reaction that I want. Look, we know that flame pots in the first 60s of an opening experience will have an audience gasp in a corporate environment. They just will. And if that's something I want to create, I will bring in flame pots because they're just fun. We know that lasers right now are cool. Sometimes just doing cool is the right answer. We know LEDs give us phenomenal design flexibility and the fact that they've come down and cost thank you less. It has really expanded our palette tremendously. Right? It's just we can do shit we've never been able to do before. On the other hand, we can start blending that with the old style stuff. You know, my first job in theater was with a performance artist. I was responsible for operating 36 slide projectors from a bank of wall dimmers that somebody had cobbled together to create magical, operatic experiences for the audience. And they thought we were using holography and they thought we were using technology, video projection, 3D that didn't even exist at the time, but there were just a bunch of slide projectors. But we made magic from nothing because it was the clever application. It was the right use of the right thing at the right time, not just because we had it or it could do it. It was the reverse process. So, Rebecca, technology and storytelling. And I'll even add another question of risk, because sometimes we do new technology that has a component of risk. And how do you approach that? Because obviously we want our shows to evolve and to become, you know, they have to be magical. And the way Jeff said, we've got to tell our stories. What are your thoughts on that? First of all, I would just say there's so much exciting technology. I think coming into that we'll be able to utilize in the event space, like spatial computing and kind of AI and holograms and everything that's coming is going to really just blow up our perception of what we can do. But I think as it stands currently, the lens in which we look at technology as it relates to storytelling is about immersion and amplification. Anything that's going to help people get immersed in the environment that we're trying to create and in the story that we're trying to tell, and that will enhance that and make them again, touch it, feel it, see it, taste it. If that's the case, you know, that's how we'd like to to to incorporate it. And then you know what it can include I think goes to Jeff's point, I mean, the palette is endless depending on what the need is. And hopefully we're all kind of applying the right one. So so Bob, technology and storytelling, you mentioned that there's so much coming that we can expand our palette with things we can do. You know, what are the what's the most exciting thing that you'll be looking forward to? Is it the AI or or what? Are you having the most fun with technology and doing your storytelling? Oh my gosh. So a I'm going to start off by counter-intuitively as the futurist again, and you're maybe nominal technologists saying technology doesn't matter, right? Show storytelling matters. And where I sit on this is, is a piece of technology serving a function that we need to tell the story. Right. Because I've designed a lot of concert tours, and I can tell you that the moment in virtually every concert tour that generates the largest audience response is the moment I turn the house lights off and 15,000 people scream. And I didn't do I need to do you know, I didn't have to do anything except hit the breakers on a bunch of sodium arc lights, right? So so there we see that that that proportional response. And is that about technology or not? Now, that said, if the technology is serving that moment, then I am all in on using it. I do want to touch on that risk mitigation thing, though. There are places to to really explore that risk, I think. And then there are places to not. And it goes to what I said about understanding what success like looks like for a client when we're going to look at deploying something really new on a show, I have to really understand how much of a tolerance there is for that to fail. And and there are definitely situations where there is zero tolerance for that and we can't do it, you know. That said, you know, we were some of the first people out the door with drones. You know, we were doing that three years ago now. And now what's getting us excited is artificial intelligence and machine learning. And the thing is, people think you need to build a big dev team to do that. And in fact, AI is just electricity. You just you can plug into Amazon's AI or Google's AI or IBM's AI and teach it to do all kinds of things. So we're going to see AI and machine learning all over the place and then merged reality. That's another thing that's really getting me excited. Gaming engines and bringing live technology together with virtual. That sounds awesome. So this is my last question for this group, and I'm throwing it to Jeff. And it's what's the most fun you get out of doing amazing shows and personally. And what what is the part that you enjoy the most about creating spectacle and and having the hearing the audience respond, yeah, no, it's actually not about the audience for me. And so I can just personalize this answer. My favorite part of doing this show is that rehearsal. When we have all of the disparate talent, all of the technology, all of the the designers coming together, and that just works. And I know it. I know it's going to be successful, and I don't need an audience to tell me that. But there's there's a moment. There's also the moment where you realize it's not going to work, which is sort of the opposite of enjoyment. But, you know, when you have the marching band and the flying LEDs and the pyro and it's and it just it did exactly what you wanted it to do, it told that story. It made that message. It created that single moment that we're pretty sure the audience will never have seen before. That's to me, that's the highlight. That's that's why I do live. It's not why I do film or anything else. Got it. Bob, what brings you the most joy in doing shows as you before you run people's reactions, smiles. You know, our demo reel starts with not an incredible show moment, but if you look at the studio's demo reel, it starts with a view of a woman's face looking in that moment of surprise and all and joy. And that's what it's all about for me the technology, the circumstances, the scale. Almost none of that matters compared to do I get to witness that? Look? Do I get to share space with that moment? That's what keeps me coming back again and again and again. I love people and I love watching them in a communal experience, receiving something. It's it's why I it's my icky guy. What the Japanese referred to as the reason I get out of bed. Bob. Thank you again. Rebecca, could you give me your thoughts on why you love doing amazing shows and your you know what? What is the most fun part for you? What really draws me to live events is really the. And actually, something Bob just touched on is that it's that communal and that collective reaction that people have at the same time, in terms of expressing emotion, and then also just the kind of the visceral reaction that you're able to to witness when people experience a really amazing moment or a happy moment or a sad moment and that you can, you know, they felt the show and they felt the experience. And and if that's expressed both in just gesture or audibly, to me that is like, okay, we did a good job and that satisfies me. Checks all my boxes. I just want you to know, I'm encouraged just hearing you all tell me this. I'm ready to go back to doing shows and when that comes, I will never be unhappy about loading a truck ever again in the worst of circumstances. I'm so excited to go back to doing what we do. I want to thank you, Rebecca, for joining us. And Jeff and Bob, I want you to know that you all are super smart people, and I look forward to shows in the future. We get to do together from The Road Ahead.